Does Hell Exist?

 

My wife and I attend a class after church on Sundays.  Last Sunday we wrapped up a book we had been studying for about three months or so and it was brought up that Rob Bell (see above) has a new book coming out (Love Wins) in which he seems to debunk the existence of hell, or at least the idea of hell as a destination for those who don't accept Christ as their savior.  This caused quite a discussion.  A similar discussion was brought up at a Bible study we went to on Monday night when someone had an article of a pastor's response to Bell, disagreeing with Bell's conclusion.

Being an opinionated person who has more or less devoted his life to ministry and who loves studying theological viewpoints, you'd think I'd be more interested in discussing the relevance of Hell.  In reality I find it a bit draining.  To be honest I am overwhelmed by the topic for many reasons, a few which I'll list:

1) I'm not comfortable making a hard conclusion either way since only God knows what happens beyond this life.  He is in control of what we know and don't know, but I'm more comfortable acting out what I feel to be clear examples in scripture intended for this life, not the next, even though I feel what we are called to in this life is tied intimately to whatever comes next.

2) On the flip side of not worrying about the afterlife, I hesitate to come to a universalism position on Hell.  Are there not consequences to our actions?  It's easy to give Ghandi a pass, but do we really want to give Hitler a pass, or the countless others who have committed heinous societal crimes?

3) I believe that there are allusions to the afterlife in the Bible, but I believe what the Bible calls us to is rooted in this life and doesn't involve a life changing one time choice.  Churches that focus on conversion often make the mistake of alienating community, or even worse, taking God's blessing and hording it for those who they, as fallible human beings, feel are worthy.

I could probably make more points as to why I don't want to make an uninformed decision on something I have no control over.  I feel overwhelmed by the topic even as I type this.  While I lean towards the position that Hell doesn't exist as a destination, I do believe in evil spirits and Satan.  I have had quite a few spiritual experiences in my life, and the most distinct of these has always been negative, probably because being raised as a Christian I have taken the positive experience for granted.  

I still remember a dream from my youth:  I was walking with some kids I went to school with.  It was on a city street and it was dark out.  I went back to help someone cross a street and my attention was drawn to an evil "being" driving an ice cream truck.  As the truck passed by (it wasn't in my path) I felt myself being sucked beneath the ground and I was in a place devoid of life.  I felt dark and cold to the point of paralysis.  I can't remember ever being as afraid as I was when I woke up.  While this is the most extreme event that stands out, I have had several other experiences similar, both awake and asleep, alone and with others.  While my dream doesn't prove or disprove Hell, it also doesn't make it easy for me to think that everyone gets a pass.

Rob Bell isn't bringing a new idea to the table with his book, but I think the reason his book has caused a lot of reaction is because of where he is coming from as an evangelical pastor.  I, personally, have liked some of Bell's work and ideas.  He has been a proponent for old ideas that are new to much of his audience.  My fear is that his focus may take away from more important and relevant discussions to be had.  The topic is divisive in itself, and more importantly, has little influence when it comes to much more relevant societal injustices: hunger, the growing gap between rich and poor, the distancing of the mega church (like Bell's own Mars Hill) from the community, racism, etc.

Please don't get me wrong.  I'm sure some people will find comfort in "Love Wins."  I don't think it's all bad, especially if the book re-emphasizes the message that Jesus' message is available for everyone, NO EXCEPTIONS.  I'd just rather focus on things I can have a direct impact on (see issues in above paragraph).  I can no more condemn someone to Hell than can I give someone a one way ticket to Heaven.  What I will choose to focus on is following the example of Christ which is relevant in this life.  I know we can bring a little bit of heaven here to the earth by what we do for others in love, without judgment.  You might call me "wishy-washy," but I believe we should focus on this life and let the chips fall wherever God puts them (intentional irony).  "...thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..."

I hope that makes sense, and no, I don't care much about what happens after I pass.  I believe we are combating forces beyond our control or understanding at times, but I'm comfortable with the way I'm living, as best as I can in Christ's example.  Would you put yourself in Heaven?  Would you condemn yourself to Hell?  Whenever we make these abstract ideas a reality we take away from a calling rooted in reality.

That's all I got, feel free to hit me up in a discussion via e-mail (jsquiggles23@hotmail.com) or if you know me on facebook.  I get your comments in my e-mail, but many of you haven't responded in the comments, so e-mail is probably the best way to discuss if you want me to respond.

Grace and peace,

Jason     

Lost In Life....

For those who may have been following my blog that I had been updating somewhat regularly, I apologize for not keeping up.  Life has gotten in the way, with many family crises as well as the pursuit of a ministerial lifestyle.  Since my last update my family has grown by one (my almost four month old daughter Samaya) and I have gotten a bit closer to becoming a licensed local pastor in the United Methodist Church.  With all that has gone on in my life I lost the energy and time to blog.  I started a series but didn't like where it was headed, so now I will not finish....  My blog, my rules.  I will probably keep up the blog more often, but I doubt that I will start a theme series like I have done before anytime soon.  I will mostly just blog about random scriptural/Jesus/other relevant things that come to mind.  So, for the three of you who read the blog occasionally I apologize if I left you hanging.

Grace and peace,

Jason

God As Mother

Hello reader(s),

I know I haven't updated as I would like, but life has gotten in the way.  My sister is contributing this to my blog and I'm afraid after you read her writing that anything I post will just be elementary.  None of the images I looked at to complement the post do it justice, and I would like to mention that if certain language offends you, don't judge this piece based on a couple words you may/may not like.  You could learn something!  Without further ado......

God As Mother

When I was growing up, I distinctly remember the days when I felt sick and needed (or just wanted) to stay home from school. Dad, in true Dad form, would respond with a “you really need to go to school if you can.” In other words, it can’t be that bad, so suck it up and deal. So I always knew who to appeal to for sympathy and understanding: Mom. “Oh sweetie, what’s wrong? I’m sorry. It’s okay to stay home if you need to, and yes, I will go call the school and let them know.” Ahh… and I will lay back down and let her fuss over me a bit….
    Let me clarify, neither of these responses was right or wrong. In fact, I believe they were both out of a place of love and caring (or as close to it as they could be). My dad meant to encourage strength and perseverance in us kids (among other things), and these are good and necessary parts of growth. Some days, I knew his advice probably should be heeded; my “sickness” was more psychological - I wanted to avoid something hard that was coming that day.
    But, when I really didn’t feel good, I just became angry at his response. It felt uncaring. I needed someone to validate. I needed to be soothed and cared for because I felt awful. I wanted someone to reassure me to stay in bed, while she ran to the store for saltines, Ginger ale, and any meds not in the house. I needed my mom.
    My point is this: something inherently changes when I begin to view God as Mother. For the majority of my life, and if I’m not mistaken, for the majority of centuries past, God has been associated with White, male, and dominance. God has been a Father, a Son, and a Spirit… And again, there is something beautiful and wonderful and good about these pictures, but they are distorted and fucked up when the female is not a part of completing a picture (and also when voices of other races and cultures are not present).
    God does not have gender. In God’s image, God created male AND female. Females reveal something of God that males cannot. Why else would God have created both? (This does not mean that men and women are vastly different; indeed, there is much greater similarity between the genders than difference, and making them so different has mainly been a reason for oppression of males over females - since difference in the Trinitarian roles means Father is over Son who is over Spirit, but that’s another fucked up story for another time and place…). In not allowing God to be seen/reflected in BOTH males and females, we have inherently lost something profound and meaningful about God.
    When I think about God as Father, or really God at all (since He has been male in my mind this whole time really) I conjure up images of a judge who has a whole list of do’s and don’ts. He feels distant most often, and even when He’s near, He’s so other to me that I don’t always know how to relate. Yes, some of this “otherness” is necessary as God is God and I am human. But, as a good friend has been talking about lately, the differences that separate us from Jesus are time and culture. That’s a gigantic leap in and of itself. Her husband has never had to think twice about relating to Jesus as a man though. There’s something understood in that identification. But for her and me, and for women in general, that just makes us one more step removed from connecting to and relating with Jesus - and the God of the universe.
    But this doesn’t have to be the case. God is representative of strength and power (concepts typically designated to males), but God is also compassionate and understanding (typically thought of as qualities designated to the “weaker” female sex). When God as Mother is allowed to be this new category in my mind, She is the one who invites and welcomes me with open arms. She spends hours listening to all my emotional ups and downs. She looks like the nursing mother who holds us as infants to her, feeding us, keeping us warm, and delighting in singing over us.
    I’ve been taking this Human Growth and Development class this term, and it is amazing to learn about the bond that is created between a mother and her infant child. In fact, newborns do not know how to regulate their own affect and emotions. They have to look to their mothers to regulate, and in turn, they eventually are able to internalize these patterns. As a mother soothes her baby, so the baby will eventually learn to soothe herself (so just think of what that means for babies whose mothers find other ways of dealing with their babies…). In learning about this relationship, I have been able to symbolically become an infant again, allowing Mother God to care for me. Sometimes, in all this work of learning self-care, I do not know I need or want. I am able to look to Mother God, being dependent on her and starting to internalize the ways She is present with me, so that I can be better present with myself.
    As I was skimming through a magazine recently, I came across this quote: “This is what makes us divine--the possibility of creating another life should remind women that we are made like God in our ability.” This understanding of God as Mother is a breath of fresh air, an opening place, a freedom. It means that instead of looking outside of myself grasping for qualities that are God-like that I have to obtain, I am able to be inside myself, just as I am, a reflection of something beautiful and wonderful and worthwhile.
    For so long, I’ve realized, I have idealized my dad. He is theologically-minded, strong, perseverant, and almost always “right.” He has been passionate about church and visions for God’s people. I strove to be like him, trying to get good grades and be dedicated to all of the same things - small groups, evangelism in a new way, intentional relationship, the importance of connecting with neighbors, etc. Dad was everything that stood for what God is like. I had to become more like Dad to be more like God. And, while this brought out many good things in me (things I don’t want to lose or give up) and helped me to push through things I may not have otherwise pushed through, I kept bumping up against this, “well, what about these other parts of me?” What about the fact that I am female and he is not?
    Working through my “dad issues” meant pushing Mom into the background, and since she is so opposite from Dad, it meant trying to be less like her. In their marriage, Dad has the stronger voice and opinion. I’m coming around to value Mom more and see the beauty and gifts that she has given to me. Seeing God as more of a mom figure means I get to be more playful, and I get to value rest more deeply. I am allowed to be “emotional” and feel what I feel without it becoming a shameful or dramatic thing. It is so good to hold both Mom and Dad in ways that they can balance each other out, instead of pitting one against the other in some way.
    Ultimately, what this wraps around to for me, is that if God represents both “male” and “female” somehow (or really the other way around, since we are image bearers of God), than in being like God, we should all strive to have the male/female balance within ourselves. I am to be strong and tender because God is strong and tender. And, this also means celebrating our diversity in our unity. What I bring to the table is going to be different from the other voices. We all have a uniqueness, and ideally we would let our various voices be heard and represented, knowing that we all reflect God in deep and profound ways.   

What Would Jesus Do?

I try not to get too political on this blog for quite a few reasons, all of which seem obvious to me.  Nothing can start a fight quite like politics or religion, and since I already have a blog that could be associated with religion, talking about politics could turn away the few readers who may pass by from time to time.

However, since I am constantly struggling with the contrast of Jesus' life in the Bible with some of his self proclaimed followers' actions in the political arena, I feel like it's time to spice up the old blog a bit.  How can I not speak about how I feel that Jesus would respond in the wake of several political battlegrounds including immigration, homosexual rights, and culminating in Glenn Beck's "Restoring Honor" rally in DC last Saturday.  All of these are loaded issues and we all tend to know how we feel, but hopefully no matter how you feel about these issues I can at least grind the gears in your head a little bit.

1) Black and White

One of the biggest failings and shames in our society, and one that directly emerges from a bipartisan government (in my opinion), is that the most intimate, personal, and complex issues get ground down into black and white, one or the other, right or wrong, etc.  The beginning of the end of civil discussion on any topic was when news organizations that were non-profit devolved into giant cable news corporations.  Before we know it how you like your eggs will become a politicized topic.

It is sad to see people lose their rights because their lives became the center of a public debate and the issue at hand is determined by people who are disconnected from the situation, and also people who are just exploiting the situation to earn votes/support/popularity.  This is most tragic when an issue becomes an extreme choice one way or the other, instead of a flexible decision with people on opposing sides of the issue compromising to move forward.

While there are certainly issues to be passionate about, I have yet to see an issue where compromise would not be possible if people would stop fighting for the extreme position.  Why can't we watch news anymore with the option to make our own minds up (we can, but NPR/PBS is unpopular and is considered liberal by people who think everything except Fox News is liberal)?  The last thing I'll say in this section is that there are few, if any, decisions with only two sides, and yet everyday we seem to only hear about a liberal or conservative position on anything.

2) Immigration Reform

Speaking of a polarizing issue, it seems that when it comes to how people feel about immigration they either feel that illegal immigrants should either stay or go.  Everyone wants reform, it's just the how that gets people worked up.  There are many ways that immigration can be reformed, and I hope it would be a more complex process than having an open or closed border.  To form my opinion on this topic I simply ask myself the question:  What would Jesus do?  It's obviously not that simple as people "surprisingly" feel differently about what Jesus would do, but I can at least start there.

I am amazed at the amount of Christians I have interacted with or witnessed that think that the Old Testament is a "Christian" document.  While the Old Testament is absolutely important and absolutely key to the story fulfilled in Jesus Christ, it is important to realize that the Old Testament tells the story of Judaism as much as it does Christianity.  What do I mean by that?  We learn in the Old Testament that while non-Jews could be converted to the faith, it was mostly the faith of a specific people.  While it may be tempting to think that if I, or any other person of non-Jewish descent, would have been a believer in line with Jewish practices, it is not likely (at best) that it would be true.

In fact, I believe it is core to the Christian story that Jesus made it possible for everyone to worship God intimately by serving as the substitute for our sins and the consequence they bring.  The Christian faith is not exclusive to anyone (although some would like to think it is), regardless of ethnic background, and that just wasn't the case in Old Testament times.  So if you consider yourself a follower of Christ, what message does it send when you support keeping people out?  At the risk of sounding hypocritical by summarizing complex viewpoints, I know that it's not that simple for most people, and yet in my daily life I encounter people who are frustrated by "those people" who are "taking jobs," "can't speak English," and are "threatening our way of life."
There is too much scripture condemning that behavior to cite it all (love for enemies, not judging, going above and beyond in response to those in need, etc.).  I'm not saying that an open border is a solution at all.  As Americans, we forget that we are immigrants ourselves inherently, both in our land and in our faith.  As a country we have created the situation we are in.  Perhaps we wouldn't have as big of a problem if we invested in building up other countries rather than constantly throwing money, and more importantly, lives away in never ending wars.

Feel free to comment, and I'll tackle the other "hot button" issues later.  We don't all have to agree, but let's at least try to genuinely ask ourselves:  "What would Jesus do?"  (And as an aside, I'm glad that bracelet fad is over.  When a legitimate question becomes a "fad," chaos ensues.)           

Andy Szymas Part Deux (Not for the Weak Stomached....)

Andy here; thanks for tuning in again… Today is the second part of a series that is all about taking Jesus out of the Box. Without further ado, let’s see what other boxes we can rescue Him from…

Jesus is my Hostage: Some people don’t view Jesus as someone that they serve, but as someone that should serve them. Jesus seems to be in their life simply to inform their political views or beliefs. The Bible isn’t a truth to live to; it’s a weapon to divide with. Verses are ripped screaming from their context and used as a bludgeon over those who aren’t as adept at memorizing scripture.

The most frustrating part about this box is that it isn’t a box that affects the “boxer” as much as the “boxee.” It’s a struggle to wake anyone up from this, and ultimately, we have to balance love and challenge to the people who have put Jesus in this box.

Before we can even do that to others, we also must remove the planks in our own eyes. Think back to your life and when you get most frustrated and want to “prove your point.” What scriptures come to your head? Do you see where they fit in the whole of the Bible, or do you only remember the sentence/phrase that proves your point? If you feel yourself in this trap, I recommend spending some time forcing yourself to listen and not immediately respond to whatever “threat” is in front of you.

Jesus is my Stock Broker: Don’t you know that Jesus gives all the investment tips you need in the Bible? If you’re poor now, that’s because you aren’t serving God properly. God wants nothing to do with the poor – he’s given them all the tools they need to pull themselves out.

Of course that’s absurd, but it’s frightening how often we can use Jesus to promote capitalism. We take verses in the Bible where Jesus says that a worker deserves his wages but ignore Matthew 20, which flies in the face of conventional capitalism. In this parable, the worker does not pay for the amount of work done, but pays everyone equally. What economic system does that sound like? Hint hint… it’s not capitalism.

And that’s not to say that Jesus is promoting communism or socialism. I’m trying to point out that when we prop Jesus up to serve a specific economic model, we lose sight of the idea that all money belongs to Jesus, and that he doesn’t hoard it… So neither should we.

 

Jesus is my Uncle Sam: Jesus invented America and makes an exception to his platform of love for those dirty commies and people not fortunate enough to be a full blooded American. That’s why when you look at a picture of Jesus on the cross, you see red (Jesus’ blood), white (Jesus’ skin), and blue (Jesus’ eyes). That’s red, white, and blue baby…

This is pretty absurd on all levels, and we can tackle it without using the Bible. Pretty much have to, actually, since the Bible says nothing (directly) about America. The U.S.A. is a wonderful country to live in and provides us with many rich blessings that no one else in history is provided. However, this country was founded primarily on the works of John Locke, not on Jesus Christ.

More sobering than the foundation is what America is now. Still a great country, but we have to realize that if Jesus were to come today, we would probably look a lot more like the villainous Roman empire of the New Testament rather than the heroes of the story. I’ll leave you with this quote from Rob Bell’s “Jesus Wants to Save Christians:”

“Most of the Bible is a history told by people living in lands occupied by conquering superpowers. It is a book written from the underside of power. It’s an oppression narrative. The majority of the Bible was written by a minority people living under the rule and reign of massive, mighty empires, from the Egyptian Empire to the Babylonian Empire to the Persian Empire to the Assyrian Empire to the Roman Empire. This can make the Bible a very difficult book to understand if you are reading it as a citizen of the most powerful empire the world has ever seen.”

Andy is a freelance thinker, writer, and giver-of-opinions. Read more of his work at: http://andyszymas.blogspot.com

 

Guest Stars

(The following is the beginning of many posts that will be contributed to my blog by others.  The first contribution is from my brother-in-law Andy Szymas.  Think of him as an evil version of me.  Andy can speak for himself, so without further ado....)

Hello – I’m not Jason. I’m Andy, and Jason is my brother-in-law. Jason asked me to contribute a few posts here and there to this blog, so here I am! I won’t go into a tremendous introduction here – if you would like more understanding of my context and the way I approach life (including scripture) you can visit my blog at Thoughts On Life. I figured a good place to start would be with the title of this blog – Taking Jesus out of the Box. But to do that, we have to figure out what box we put him in.

Jesus is my CEO: A CEO’s job is to maximize profits, and to be honest, Jesus does not exist to maximize much of anything really. Jesus isn’t particularly concerned with getting the most followers – See Mark 10 for at least one example of someone that Jesus “let get away.” Jesus seems to speak in a deliberately confusing way in order to drive at least a few people away. Jesus never shows interest in money or political power for himself or for his “organization.” All in all, Jesus would be fired as a CEO in today’s business world.

To get Jesus out of this box, we have to stop allowing the world to set our goals and metrics. Success in the eyes of Jesus is not measured by how efficiently we can send out church invitations; it is not found in the number of seats used on Sunday morning; and it can’t be found in counting our tithes. Success, in the eyes of Jesus, is found in glorification of His name.

Jesus is my Santa Claus: This seems to be the idea in some churches which preach a prosperity gospel – that Jesus exists to bring gifts (hopefully more than once a year!) But only if you’re nice and not naughty.  Actually, Jesus doesn’t always give much in the way of traditional gifts or wealth, does he? His best friend is called from a life as a poor fisherman to a life as a … poor preacher who is crucified upside down. That’s a great gift, isn’t it?

We must begin to realize that Jesus doesn’t exist to bring us gifts – we exist to bring Him gifts. Jesus isn’t around to make sure that we have summer homes and nice cars and no cancer. We may end up with those things through God’s blessing, but we aren’t to use those for only our enjoyment. In fact, the only reason that Jesus gives us anything is for us to give to others – look at the story of Abraham, who is blessed “in order to be a blessing to all nations.” So to remove Jesus from this box, we have to stop thinking of my stuff and start thinking of Jesus’ stuff.

Jesus is my Superman: Superman swoops down and saves the day at the last minute, against all odds. Superman is known as the Big Blue Boy Scout – he rescues people again and again, even if they’re evil and suffering the consequence of their own mistake. But Jesus seems to be more willing to let people make their choices and take the consequences – Jesus gives Judas some three years to see his ministry, but never seems to take the temptation away or rescue Judas. He lets Judas make his choice and grieves Judas’ decision.

Jesus is in this particular box because of the choices we make that put us in situations that need rescue. In order for us to remove Jesus from this box, we need to remove the need for a box – we must stop putting ourselves in situations where we need a Superman. Rather than expecting Jesus to rescue us from crippling debt, we need to make decisions that don’t put us there. Instead of expecting Jesus to pull us out of crushing materialism, we need to start giving in small ways. You get the point.


I’ll return in a couple of days with a few more “boxes” that we put Jesus in… In the meantime, if you have questions/comments/concerns/ideas, let me know and comment! 
Andy is a freelance thinker, writer, and giver-of-opinions. Read more of his work at: http://andyszymas.blogspot.com

Interesting Blog Post on the Wesleyan Quadrilateral at JesusCreed

Read Scot McKnight's take on the Wesleyan Quadrilateral here: http://blog.beliefnet.com/jesuscreed/2010/07/the-wesleyan-quadrilateral-ste.html

I think this is a well written post (as usual with McKnight's work), but I also think it is reflective of McKnight's upbringing and his own scriptural interpretation (obviously my post has it's own bias).  I do think that Wesley gave scripture priority, but given the time in which Wesley lived and taught, I wouldn't expect otherwise.  I would however, apply the quadrilateral maybe a bit differently today.  McKnight suggests that we should give scripture priority in the equation and the illustration shown in his post shows scripture, indeed, as the foundation of the quadrilateral.  I hope that one day we can get past these "word games" and realize that scripture is a vital component, but is no more or less valuable than the other components.
To explain myself, I would even echo some of the points McKnight makes himself as he talks about the ways tradition, reason, and experience enhance and work with scripture.  When we throw out tradition, we are basically insulting conclusions and affirmations made over centuries.  This doesn't mean that tradition isn't adapting or being reformed, but without tradition we lose respect for some of the distinctly common aspects to our faith.
Reason and experience are similar, and NT Wright (being an Anglican priest) asserts that experience is an unnecessary leg in the quadrilateral.  With my own "experience" in mind, I couldn't disagree more.  Reason allows us to translate scripture individually and communally with our experiences fueling what is reasonable (not without scripture and tradition in hand, though).
You can see how difficult it is to talk about one without the other three.  We can't possibly interpret scripture properly on our own.  We all have been brought up with a particular approach to the Bible and have reacted to that approach one way or another.  Ironically, the title of my blog is "Taking Jesus Out of the Box," and one of the most frustrating things I've seen is when people practice their faith in a way that chains God, and Christ, to the Bible.  Aren't we engaging the LIVING GOD today?  Are our lives any less important to God than the lives of the saints in the Bible?
I agree with most of what Mr. McKnight had to say, and I bet I'm reading too much into semantics when I challenge the sola scriptura approach as well as others who challenge that approach and yet still seem bullied into deferring to scripture as the primary understanding of God independent of our own lives.  I don't think that's what McKnight is doing, per say, but just the fact that he took the time to mention that scripture is the primary component of the quadrilateral speaks volumes.
To conclude, let me just say that we sometimes forget what we're reading and where it comes from.  In some cases we don't even know where exactly it came from but make an educated guess or conclusion with what we do know.  To me, the Bible is an interpretation of an interpretation of an oral tradition put into writing, and in some cases it is an interpretation of an account of events (interpretation in regard to language).  It is a central component of my own faith, but I always approach it with a bit of humility because to me it is impossible to look at the Bible as a prescription for all of life's events as well as a collection of scientific conclusions.  When people look to the Bible as the end all be all, they give it priority over God and lose the God given ability to think for themselves in some situations.  We need more room for discussion and respect for differences in the church in regard to scripture.  We have more common beliefs with each other as Christians than we do differences, and humanity as a whole has more in common than it has differences.  Let's give scripture it's proper place with the realization that God works outside of scripture as well as outside of the limitations tradition, reason and experience have on their own.

God bless,

Jason